I have a BlackFoot with a 3.25hp Porter Cable router. What is a safe starting IPM to optimize feed rate? How fast do you guys run full depth passes through MDO or MDF?

Question #: 2372

Question: I have a BlackFoot with a 3.25hp Porter Cable router. What is a safe starting IPM to optimize feed rate? How fast do you guys run full depth passes through MDO or MDF?

Current Solution

It is not recommended that standard routers do full depth passes. This is better done with a spindle. For best results with routers, we recommend a depth that equals the cutting diameter of the end mill. The IPM will relate to the chip load of the end mill (look up the formula online and add it here). The IPM will also depend on the end mill diameter, the larger the diameter, the faster the feedrate. A 1/2" end mill can cut about 300-500 ipm where a 1/4" end mill will be able to cut at 80-120 IPM, at a depth equaling the cutter diameter using a router. With a spindle, the same feedrates can be applied, but with more depth per pass. For instance, an MDF full depth cut at 3/4" can be cut at the 100 IPM using a 1/4" cutter.
Here is a basic setup we have for our blackFoot (default setting):
X-Axis
SPI: 914.29
Acc: 400.02
Vel: 5
Y-Axis
SPI: 1422.22
Acc: 400.02
Vel: 5
Z-Axis
SPI: 1600
Acc: 400.02
Vel: 79.98

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Other Possible Solutions to this Question

I AM PUTTING TOGETHER THE BLACKFOOT AND USING A PORTER CABLE ROUTER. CONFUSED ON HOW TO RELAY ROUTETR WITH USB BOARD. IS THERE ANOTHER SWITCH THAT GOES BETWEEN BOARD ROUTER SO PLANET CNC CAN TURN PERHAPS VACUUM OFF?
We are currently working on a relay board that will connect to USB breakout board, and the router/spindle for both the on/off function. Unfortunately we still do not have it completed or ready to be placed on our website, but it is in the final stages of testing. Please check back regularly for updated stock!

Here is a link to a tutorial for a DIY relay circuit:

There is no vacuum control on the Planet-CNC program, however you could use the same concept of the router/spindle on/off using the relay circuit. Although you will have to use either the flood or mist function for the vacuum.
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I AM PUTTING TOGETHER THE BLACKFOOT AND USING A PORTER CABLE ROUTER. CONFUSED ON HOW TO RELAY ROUTETR WITH USB BOARD. IS THERE ANOTHER SWITCH THAT GOES BETWEEN BOARD ROUTER SO PLANET CNC CAN TURN PERHAPS VACUUM OFF?
I am interested in buying the 2.2 kW spindle. Does it run much quieter than a 2 hp Porter Cable router? You also mention a pump with a bucket of water. How long until the water is too warm to cool the spindle?
The 2.2kW Spindle has many advantages over a standard router such as the Porter Cable. The most obvious benefit to the user is the significant reduction of both dust and noise.

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What size water source is needed and how long can it be used before it is too warm? Do you have a pressure vs. flow curve for the spindle so I can properly size the water pump?

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I used a small pond pump inside a 5 gallon bucket. I put a little bit of windshield washer fluid in with it to keep anything from growing in it. It's worked great. I've had 1 hour run times with no noticeable increase in spindle temp.

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I am interested in buying the 2.2 kW spindle. Does it run much quieter than a 2 hp Porter Cable router? You also mention a pump with a bucket of water. How long until the water is too warm to cool the spindle?
I am putting together the Blackfoot and I am using a porter cable router. I am confused on how to relay the routetr with the USB board. is there another relay switch that goes between the USB board and the router so that planet CNC can turn the router and perhaps the vacuum on and off?
We are currently working on a relay board that will connect to USB breakout board, and the router/spindle for both the on/off function. Unfortunately we still do not have it completed or ready to be placed on our website, but it is in the final stages of testing. Please check back regularly for updated stock!

Here is a link to a tutorial for a DIY relay circuit:

There is no vacuum control on the Planet-CNC program, however you could use the same concept of the router/spindle on/off using the relay circuit. Although you will have to use either the flood or mist function for the vacuum.
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I am putting together the Blackfoot and I am using a porter cable router. I am confused on how to relay the routetr with the USB board. is there another relay switch that goes between the USB board and the router so that planet CNC can turn the router and perhaps the vacuum on and off?
I'm interested in getting the CO2 laser & Spindle for my Blackfoot - I currently have just the router mount. Do you sell complete kits or can you advise on what I need? Thank you
Yes, if you want a laser on the machine, I would highly suggest that the laser be mounted on a separate gantry, similar to the following image:
https://buildyourcnc.com/images/machineConfigurations/greenBullV2_size_04x08_angle_flat_f1_no4thaxis_f2_wilasergantry_f3_nolaser_f4_wilaserready_.png

You would need to develop the gantry structure, but you can use this thread to work out the design with my guidance.

You will need a laser tube, laser power supply, laser controller, mirrors, mirror mounts, lens and nozzle. You will also need some mechanical parts and some motors, drivers and power supplies for the drivers and the controller.

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Yes, if you want a laser on the machine, I would highly suggest that the laser be mounted on a separate gantry, similar to the following image:
https://buildyourcnc.com/images/machineConfigurations/greenBullV2_size_04x08_angle_flat_f1_no4thaxis_f2_wilasergantry_f3_nolaser_f4_wilaserready_.png

You would need to develop the gantry structure, but you can use this thread to work out the design with my guidance.

You will need a laser tube, laser power supply, laser controller, mirrors, mirror mounts, lens and nozzle. You will also need some mechanical parts and some motors, drivers and power supplies for the drivers and the controller.
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I'm interested in getting the CO2 laser & Spindle for my Blackfoot - I currently have just the router mount. Do you sell complete kits or can you advise on what I need? Thank you
I'm interested in getting the CO2 laser & Spindle for my Blackfoot - I currently have just the router mount. Do you sell complete kits or can you advise on what I need? Thank you
Yes, if you want a laser on the machine, I would highly suggest that the laser be mounted on a separate gantry, similar to the following image:
https://buildyourcnc.com/images/machineConfigurations/greenBullV2_size_04x08_angle_flat_f1_no4thaxis_f2_wilasergantry_f3_nolaser_f4_wilaserready_.png

You would need to develop the gantry structure, but you can use this thread to work out the design with my guidance.

You will need a laser tube, laser power supply, laser controller, mirrors, mirror mounts, lens, and nozzle. You will also need some mechanical parts and some motors, drivers, and power supplies for the drivers and the controller.
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I'm interested in getting the CO2 laser & Spindle for my Blackfoot - I currently have just the router mount. Do you sell complete kits or can you advise on what I need? Thank you
I just wanted to know what I can expect to pay to build the blackFoot 4'x8' CNC machine, excluding computer, software and router? Is the kit complete or do I have to purchase additional items to finish?
You will need to build the table unit for your machine. There are instructions on how to do this at the bottom of the product page here, https://www.buildyourcnc.com/Item/cnc-machine-blackFoot-v4
There is no estimate on how much this will cost though, since there are too many variables involved to do this.

- PC with parallel port and USB port
- 20awg stranded wires for the motors - http://www.buildyourcnc.com/electronicscombo.aspx
- 18awg stranded wires for power supply to drivers
- 24awg stranded wires for breakout board to drivers
(location and spacing of components varies from one person to another, so we do not provide cables/wires)
- General purpose extension cord (cut the female end off) to provide power to power supply
- USB cable to power breakout board
- Parallel cable to communicate to breakout board
- Router
- (optional - instead of router) Spindle with power inverter http://www.buildyourcnc.com/SpindlesAndAccessories.aspx
- (if purchasing spindle with inverter) General purpose extension cord (240v) (cut the female end off) to provide power to power inverter
- End Mill(s) http://www.buildyourcnc.com/ProductsEndMills.aspx
- CAD, and/or CAD-CAM software (to produce geometry, machine operations, and g-code) http://www.buildyourcnc.com/CNCsoftware.aspx
- CNC control software (to read g-code and control machine) http://www.buildyourcnc.com/CNCsoftware.aspx

This answer is applicable to most of our machines with the exception of the greenLean and the blueChick since those machines are equipped with a table structure.

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I just wanted to know what I can expect to pay to build the blackFoot 4'x8' CNC machine, excluding computer, software and router? Is the kit complete or do I have to purchase additional items to finish?
I ordered a collet set for a Porter Cable router on 10/7, my card was charged on 10/8. I have not heard anything from you as to when it would ship, or even a confirmation of the order. Please let me know the status.
That order did not show up in our system. We searched and found it in our PayPal activity. We are sending it today. My apologies for this.

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I received my order, thank you. However the collet nut will not fit my Porter Cable 690, the threads are too coarse. Can you please send the correct nut, and I will return the wrong nut.
Thank you,
Tom

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I believe the wrench is different also.

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Ok. I will send the correct wrench and collet nut.

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It’s Monday 11-16, and I have not received the nut and wrench. Have you shipped it yet?

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Let me check.

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The set of collets and nut/spanner came straight from the supplier PreciseBits. I am working to understand what went wrong and get it resolved.

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Do you have any new info on the status?

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It’s now Dec 2nd, I ordered this on Oct 7th. No resolution yet! Still waiting, Not very happy.
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I ordered a collet set for a Porter Cable router on 10/7, my card was charged on 10/8. I have not heard anything from you as to when it would ship, or even a confirmation of the order. Please let me know the status.
I would like to build the 2’x 4’ blackToe2x4v40 CNC router. I have your book. I want to build the latest model blackToe2x4 v40. Are those the correct plans on your web book page ? Is there a bill of materials? If I use a Porter Cable 3-3/4 router motor what size stepper motors do I need?
The blackToe 2'x4' cnc machine is sold as a kit only. We offer plans for the scratch (book) build machine that can be found here for purchase and also comes with a DVD showing the build process: http://www.buildyourcnc.com/cnckitintro.aspx and the plans for build in the book is on the CNC book page: http://www.buildyourcnc.com/Book.aspx.

You can use the same size stepping motors referenced in the book: http://www.buildyourcnc.com/category/elcombo
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I would like to build the 2’x 4’ blackToe2x4v40 CNC router. I have your book. I want to build the latest model blackToe2x4 v40. Are those the correct plans on your web book page ? Is there a bill of materials? If I use a Porter Cable 3-3/4 router motor what size stepper motors do I need?
I just made the book build Cnc machine with the feed rate of 11.19 inch/min as suggested in book. Can I increase it to 20 inch/min? I have 2hp of router attached
The book (scratch build) will be able to cut at very high rates of speed, but the speed is partly determined by the mechanical setup. Cutting wood is generally recommended between 60-200 ipm depending on the end mill and spindle being used. The larger the end mill (with increased chip load capacity) the faster the feedrate.

If you are using a standard allthread, you will not be able to have these high feedrates. You will need to purcahse high lead leadscrews: https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/mechanical-leadscrews-leadnuts-!5-5-starts-10-tpi

The stepping motors need to turn 13 times to travel one inch using standard allthread (1/2-13 TPI - threads per inch). The higher lead leadscrews shown in the link provided will move one inch with only two turns allowing the machine to move many times faster.

These speeds are especially important if you are cutting materials that have low melting points like aluminum and thermoplastics like acrylic, Plexiglas, etc. These materials require high feedrates and smaller depth per passes.

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I just made the book build Cnc machine with the feed rate of 11.19 inch/min as suggested in book. Can I increase it to 20 inch/min? I have 2hp of router attached
I have a blacktoe router table with a porter cable 892 currently in it. Which other router(s) fit the same mount?
The motor mounts for the PC 890 series routers will fit the Bosch 1617 routers as well, however you will need to adjust the top mount to accept the slight edge of the Bosch 1617 router at the top motor mount.
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I have a blacktoe router table with a porter cable 892 currently in it. Which other router(s) fit the same mount?
When I start my spindle I get a emergency stop in Mach 3. I have run shielded cable and it is grounded at the VFD it is wired per you site instructions. any idea what to check
You will definitely want to adjust your debounce setting in mach3 if your emergency or limit switch is engaging.

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Did you ever fix this issue? I am having the same problem.

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Did you ever fix this issue? I am having the same problem.

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Did you ever fix this issue? I am having the same problem.

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Did you ever fix this issue? I am having the same problem.

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Did you ever fix this issue? I am having the same problem.

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Did you ever fix this issue? I am having the same problem.

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Did you ever fix this issue? I am having the same problem.

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Did you ever fix this issue? I am having the same problem.

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Did you try changing the denounce setting?

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Meant to say denounce.
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When I start my spindle I get a emergency stop in Mach 3. I have run shielded cable and it is grounded at the VFD it is wired per you site instructions. any idea what to check
I purchased a Blackfoot 4ft X 8ft in 2015 I have yet to run it. Do y’all offer any classes that can help me?? I would very much like to have this machine running. Thank you in Dayton Tx
Come on over and we will assist you in any way you need.
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I purchased a Blackfoot 4ft X 8ft in 2015 I have yet to run it. Do y’all offer any classes that can help me?? I would very much like to have this machine running. Thank you in Dayton Tx
Do you have any videos or plans for how to make a strong table for a large CNC router? I saw the torsion box videos but would like some more guidance on how to build just a good table.
This is a good video on how to do a vacuum table
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Do you have any videos or plans for how to make a strong table for a large CNC router? I saw the torsion box videos but would like some more guidance on how to build just a good table.
I have a Blackfoot 4x4 v2 chain drive. my Y plate is broken . do you sell just the Y plate or can I buy just the Y plate spec plan? I love this machine Its great. my name is Jeff Krug I bought the complete package and electronics from you guys. thanks
Sure, email me at customerservice@buildyourcnc.com and I will send you a replacement for a minimal fee. I now use HDPE for that part. The HDPE holds up much better.
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I have a Blackfoot 4x4 v2 chain drive. my Y plate is broken . do you sell just the Y plate or can I buy just the Y plate spec plan? I love this machine Its great. my name is Jeff Krug I bought the complete package and electronics from you guys. thanks
Can the vertical CNC router do about what a horizontal router can, like cutting out 3/4" cabinet doors from a 4'X8' formica clad sheet? If so, how do you hold it - with Vacuum? Is a vacuum system available?
Our hold down method is screws. For a 4'x8' 3/4" sheet, we use 6 screws around the perimeter of the sheet. This provides sufficient hold down for milling. For the vertically oriented machine, the sheet also rests on a small ledge, making it easy for the board to maintain position while fastening.
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Can the vertical CNC router do about what a horizontal router can, like cutting out 3/4" cabinet doors from a 4'X8' formica clad sheet? If so, how do you hold it - with Vacuum? Is a vacuum system available?
Since I am using normal all-thread lead screw 13 TPI 1/2" for the book build cnc, what can be the maximum feed rate of machine and how can I change the mechanical setup in mach 3? I am using 1/4" steel carbile endmill with 2 flutes and router is 2 HP with variable speed
Book build (scratch build), feedrates and recommendation.

Using standard allthread will provide around 20-30 ipm using 36 volts. Although it allows for a working CNC machine, the RPM of the spindle/router will need to spin at the lowest setting to provide the beat efficiency and life for the end mill at 1/4" cut diameter and higher. The speeds may be fine for smaller end mills.

If you would like faster speeds, you should change the lead screws on the CNC machine to the 1/2" 5 start 10 TPI which translates to 2 turns per inch which means, the stepping motor will not need to turn as fast to produce faster motion. That is to say, the stepping motor will only need to turn two revolutions for the machine to travel one inch and with the allthread, the stepping motor will need to turn 13 times to reach one inch.

Link to the lead screw and other mechanical parts needed:
https://www.buildyourcnc.com/CNCMachineMechanicalParts.aspx

To change the lead screws you will need (for each axis):

1. The lead screw for that axis.
2. Two 1/2" collars to keep the lead screw axially stable.
3. One Antibacklash nut.

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Since I am using normal all-thread lead screw 13 TPI 1/2" for the book build cnc, what can be the maximum feed rate of machine and how can I change the mechanical setup in mach 3? I am using 1/4" steel carbile endmill with 2 flutes and router is 2 HP with variable speed
Hello. I like your vertikal router. Is then router stabil enogh for the need of a Carpenter? Are you using 21mm Plywood or 21mm MDF. What type of spindel (KW) is maximum allowed and whatbis the maximum feed (6mm cutter) in oak. Thank you, Veit
The greenLean vertical CNC is stable enough to handle large-scale production on a daily basis. We use 3/4" MDO plywood, which is equivalent to about 19mm. The gantry is designed to hold a 2.2kW Spindle, with a maximum of 24,000 RPM.
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Hello. I like your vertikal router. Is then router stabil enogh for the need of a Carpenter? Are you using 21mm Plywood or 21mm MDF. What type of spindel (KW) is maximum allowed and whatbis the maximum feed (6mm cutter) in oak. Thank you, Veit
How do I get started I would like to build a cnc router. Making the machine I can do, but I am weak on cad,cam and mach3. I am thinking about a 4’x4’. Do you have plans I can buy?
We are developing plans for our machine, but they are not completed yet. Please let me know if you would like to be added to our list of customers wanting plans. Thanks,

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If you have specific questions regarding CAD, CAM and Control, please add another question to the customer service and I will answer them in detail.
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How do I get started I would like to build a cnc router. Making the machine I can do, but I am weak on cad,cam and mach3. I am thinking about a 4’x4’. Do you have plans I can buy?
I have a 4x8 CNC and would like to cut my own parts for the Blackfoot. What is the price for the plans and the electronics ?
The available options for the blackFoot, is only structural components with hardware, and structure components/hardware with electronic components.
However we currently do not have any plans available for public use/distribution.
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I have a 4x8 CNC and would like to cut my own parts for the Blackfoot. What is the price for the plans and the electronics ?