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Question #: 15005

Question: [#25 Roller Chain] What size gear could I add to your #25 design to increase torque by around 3x?

Current Solution

Torque is measured from the center of the shaft to the pitch diameter divided by 2 of the sprocket in inches or feet and is able to move (rotate) with a force at this measurement tangential to the pitch diameter circle. The smaller this pitch diameter is, the less torque is required by the motor to turn the sprocket under load. If you are starting with a large sprocket, say with a pitch diameter of 5 inches (2.5 inches radius), it is easy to reduce the size of the drive sprocket to increase the mechanical advantage. All you need to do is take the 2.5 inches and divide that by 3 to find the new pitch radius.

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Other Possible Solutions to this Question

  • I am interested in getting your 40W laser system. How difficult will it be to increase the size to 48" x 48"?

    The blackTooth machine, as it is designed cannot be modified easily as the box within which it is contained also serve as its structure. We are currently designing a special mount for the greenBull (for the 40 watt tube) which will provide 5'x10' or 6'x12' work area and the machine is far less expensive than comparable 4'x8' laser systems. We are also developing a 4'x8' 80 watt system where the tube is in the horizontal orientation. More information can be found in the R&D section.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I am interested in getting your 40W laser system. How difficult will it be to increase the size to 48" x 48"?

  • What would I need to purchase to increase the Z axis stepper motor up one size from the one that comes with the Blacktoe 4.1 with computer? I can't get Patrick to answer e-mails, so I'll try here.

    Thanks for the question. The blackToe z-axis motor is a NEMA 24 425 oz-in stepping motor and the next step up is a NEMA 34 651 oz-in motor located here: https://buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-nema34-651ozin


    To make it work on the blackToe CNC machine, you would need to fabricate a new mount and the top bearing mount, or request us to fabricate it for you by calling the office.

    Curious, why the need to increase the size? If the motor is having a difficult time, there may be a deeper mechanical issue at play. One issue you may have is that the bearings are needing shim washers to separate the inner and outer races. If the two races are rubbing against the coupling or collar, the bearing may be difficult to turn under the weight of the assembly. If there is too much friction between the anti-backlash nut and the lead screw, you can add some 2-in-1 oil, or other similar lubricant.

    Thank you for using our Customer Service Live. Patrick often answers these questions. We prefer this system over email as these questions will benefit others.

    If you have additional questions or need more explanation relating to this question, please add to this answer.

    User response:
    I have added the shim washer between the bearing and coupling and have always used a light oil on the lead screw. I halved the acceleration on the Z-axis. Then I re-ran a topo that took two hours on the finish pass. No change in my results - the Z-axis slowly dropped until when the program finished and everything went back to the start point, the Z axis was lower by 0.378 inches than when it started at 0.800 above the surface.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated. Maybe I need more shim washers in the assembly between all the bearing surfaces?

    buildyourcnc response:
    Before you add a larger motor, check these first:

    1. take the motor off by remove only the motor screws and removing the motor as well as the coupling half that is secured to the motor shaft.

    2. Turn the lead screw by hand. This will still be connected to the z-axis assembly by the anti-backlash nut, so you will feel the resistance in the upward motion of the z-axis. Does it feel relatively easy to turn, or very difficult?

    3. If the resistance is relatively normal with respect to gravity and normal friction between the anti-backlash nut and the screw, then you may want to half the velocity as well on the z-axis motor tuning, and even reduce the acceleration a bit more. Doing topographical layouts should not require fast z-axis motor travel. Be careful not to lower the z-axis acceleration if you are using constant velocity as this can make the topo "too smooth" where there may be features such as cliffs present. If you need to lower acceleration drastically, then use exact stop rather than constant velocity.

    Another gotcha that may be causing this phenomenon is motor cable/wire chafing. We had this same issue crop up where two wires were shorting only at a specific position because the wires moved just enough to cause these wires to connect. This was caused by a zip tie. Zip ties have a very sharp edge that can cut the insulation of the wire. A hint of this problem is if this phenomenon is only present after working successfully with the machine for a greater period of time.

    Use response:
    I bought a new lead screw, bearings, antibacklash nut, and shim washers (WHICH NEED TO BE IN YOUR ONLINE CATALOG) and installed them. (Like another commentor on this site, my lead screw wouldn't go through the bearings. Simple solution was to chuck it into my drill press and 400 grit smooth it until a snug fit was had. Lowest RPM.)

    Anyhow, I ran another Topo yesterday and got the same results. The wires are not frayed, the acceleration has been halved, the speed reduced to a crawl. When testing manually, twisting the Z axis up was very hard to do compared to lowering it.

    I have thought about a counterbalance of some type, but that introduces lots of other problems.

    Anything you can thing of will certainly help.

    I can send pictures, etc.

    Thanks!

    Buildyourcnc response
    What router/spindle do you have installed?

    User response:
    The one you sold me - 110 V, 1.5KW water cooled.

    User response:
    This problem of the z axis drift has been evident since I first started using the machine a couple of years ago. Lithophanes, stipples, topographic and other heavy z axis users have been particularly bad. It is to the point that I am turning away opportunities for lack of capability.

    Buildyourcnc response:
    I think all options may be exhausted. We will design a new mount that holds a large motor. Please give us a call so we can arrange to send that out to you.

    We just determined that the existing mount need to be adjusted by about one millimeter for the main mounting hoes for the larger NEMA 34 motor to fit. The overall mount will look the same but the outside hole spacing will be adjusted by a very small amount to match the larger motor mounting holes. This new adjustment will be included with all new machines. We will send you the new mount (consisting of two structural pieces) and the longer screws that will be needed to extend to fit the motor frame thickness.

    Additional Information:


    Additional Information:
    They didn't send the longer screws, nor the new required coupling, but I finally got it together and it works just fine. It returns to precise Z zero every time.

    But the motor runs pretty hot because I think it should be run at a higher voltage than the current power supply provides.

    Any new sales of Blacktoe 4.1 should include this modification.

    Cheers.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    What would I need to purchase to increase the Z axis stepper motor up one size from the one that comes with the Blacktoe 4.1 with computer? I can't get Patrick to answer e-mails, so I'll try here.

  • I want to buy your product, could you shipping to other country (I'm in Indonesia)?

    You can determine if the country is serviceable by:
    - selecting the items you want to purchase on the website
    - go to the cart (shopping cart top left of any webpage)
    - log in, or register
    - Enter the address and click on calculate shipping.

    The webpage will return the direct rates and whether your area is serviced or not. Feel free to enter any address as long as you are able to receive the package from that address.

    The shipping times are determined by the service you select in the shopping cart. If a machine is purchased, we generally have a one week lead time unless otherwise stated in the description of the machine's product page.

    Additional Information:

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I want to buy your product, could you shipping to other country (I'm in Indonesia)?

  • wHAT IS THE SMALLEST LENGTH SHAFT I CAN USE FOR YOUR #25 DRIVE SPROCET?

    The hub length of the drive sprocket and the other mechanical devise that is used to connect on the shaft will determine the length of the shaft needed for use with the drive sprocket.

    The hub lengths for our drive sprockets are 1/2". So if you are connecting the drive sprocket to a motor, your motor shaft will need to be at least 1/2" in length.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    wHAT IS THE SMALLEST LENGTH SHAFT I CAN USE FOR YOUR #25 DRIVE SPROCET?

  • If no existing kit seems to match the requirements, is design assistance available so I could build the needed platform myself?

    If you do not find a machine, mechanism, or resources on this website, we can assist you and guide you on how to use the resources on this website to suit your needs.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    If no existing kit seems to match the requirements, is design assistance available so I could build the needed platform myself?

  • What are the minimal additional items a DIYer would need to add to your basic package to make a functional CNC?

    PC with parallel port and USB port
    20awg stranded wires for the motors - http://www.buildyourcnc.com/electronicscombo.aspx
    18awg stranded wires for power supply to drivers
    24awg stranded wires for breakout board to drivers
    (location and spacing of components varies from one person to another, so we do not provide cables/wires)
    - General purpose extension cord (cut the female end off) to provide power to power supply
    - USB cable to power breakout board
    - Parallel cable to communicate to breakout board
    - Router
    - (optional - instead of router) Spindle with power inverter http://www.buildyourcnc.com/SpindlesAndAccessories.aspx
    - (if purchasing spindle with inverter) General purpose extension cord (240v) (cut the female end off) to provide power to power inverter
    - End Mill(s) http://www.buildyourcnc.com/ProductsEndMills.aspx
    - CAD, and/or CAD-CAM software (to produce geometry, machine operations, and g-code) http://www.buildyourcnc.com/CNCsoftware.aspx
    - CNC control software (to read g-code and control machine) http://www.buildyourcnc.com/CNCsoftware.aspx
    - If the machine does not have the table included, then a table will need to be built. The rails, chain and chain mounts are included that are used on this table.

    Additional Information:

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    What are the minimal additional items a DIYer would need to add to your basic package to make a functional CNC?

  • What are the dimensions (height x width) of the spine of the 2" strip brush? I need this info to design a dust shoe.

    The strip brush is .2 inches (5.23 mm) wide, so a slot of that width or slightly wider will work. We use a .25 inch groove and use glue to adhere the strip brushes in our dust shoe.

    The material of the bristles and the strip that holds the bristles are nylon.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    What are the dimensions (height x width) of the spine of the 2" strip brush? I need this info to design a dust shoe.

  • My X-axis on the Blacktoe cannot run above ~40 ipm. I've checked all connections,tensions, sprocket locks, etc. All is fine. Can the 425 OZ stepping motor be replaced with a bigger motor, or could a second 425 OZ stepper be added to increase torque?

    it is possible to install 2 motors on a single axis but you will require another driver and motor, but wire it directly to the same pins on your breakout board. Also the orientation of your motor since it is opposite side of the original so getting it to move accordingly to the original motor it will need to be orientated correctly. The slight shift could be the cause of the rod not being completely flat where the set screws are suppose to tighten the sprocket to the rod, so sanding it to a flatter surface might fix the shift in directions.
    Currently do not have a kit or schematic available.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    My X-axis on the Blacktoe cannot run above ~40 ipm. I've checked all connections,tensions, sprocket locks, etc. All is fine. Can the 425 OZ stepping motor be replaced with a bigger motor, or could a second 425 OZ stepper be added to increase torque?

  • I purchased your single relay and need to know what wire go s to the signal in

    Hi. The relay that we sell here:
    https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-breakout-Relays-relay-board-250V-12A-5V

    Has the same relay as the parallel breakout board:
    https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-parallel-breakout-relay

    And contains three terminals: "S", "P" and "P". The "P" is always connected and will be the connection between the "S" or the "O" depending on if you need the connection to be Normally Closed (NC) or Normally Open (NO).

    - Use the "O" if you need the connection from "P" and "O" to be Normally Open, meaning that the circuit will close (be connected) if the relay engages.

    - Use the "S" if you need the connection from "P" and "S" to be Normally Closed, meaning that the circuit will open (be disconnected) if the relay engages.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I purchased your single relay and need to know what wire go s to the signal in

  • I purchased your single relay and need to know what wire go s to the signal in

    Hi. The relay that we sell here:
    https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-breakout-Relays-relay-board-250V-12A-5V

    Has the same relay as the parallel breakout board:
    https://www.buildyourcnc.com/item/electronicsAndMotors-parallel-breakout-relay

    And contains three terminals: "S", "P" and "P". The "P" is always connected and will be the connection between the "S" or the "O" depending on if you need the connection to be Normally Closed (NC) or Normally Open (NO).

    - Use the "O" if you need the connection from "P" and "O" to be Normally Open, meaning that the circuit will close (be connected) if the relay engages.

    - Use the "S" if you need the connection from "P" and "S" to be Normally Closed, meaning that the circuit will open (be disconnected) if the relay engages.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I purchased your single relay and need to know what wire go s to the signal in

  • I was wondering what thickness of material the 'book' design can handle on the z-axis?

    The book CNC build has a restricted Z-Axis travel due to the design of the Z axis assembly. This machine is best used for sheet material. You can modify the bed of the machine so that there is a depressed area that thicker stock can be placed. The travel of the book CNC build is approximately 5 inches. Increasing the dimension of the gantry from rail to rail will allow a longer z-axis assembly increasing the z-axis travel.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I was wondering what thickness of material the 'book' design can handle on the z-axis?

  • If I wanted to use the blueChick for isolation routing, what accuracy could I expect from v3.0 and v4.2?

    The blueChick v4.2, is accurate at 1000's of an inch, with the roller chain, the v3.0 with the timing belt will increase the accuracy by 5%-10%, but to the expense of structural integrity.

    Additional Information:

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    If I wanted to use the blueChick for isolation routing, what accuracy could I expect from v3.0 and v4.2?

  • WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TELL ME WHETHER OR NOT SHIP ANY OF YOUR KIT PRODUCTS TO THE UK?

    You can determine if the area is serviceable by:
    - selecting the items you want to purchase on the website
    - go to the cart (shopping cart top left of any webpage)
    - log in, or register
    - Enter the address and click on calculate shipping.

    The webpage will return the direct rates and whether your area is serviced or not. Feel free to enter any address as long as you are able to receive the package from that address.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TELL ME WHETHER OR NOT SHIP ANY OF YOUR KIT PRODUCTS TO THE UK?

  • I want to increase my travel speeds. Can I change the lead screw to make my machine quicker?

    Changing your lead screws from a tight to a lose lead will definitely make your machine move faster as long as your stepper motors can handle the new torque that the lead screws will impose.

    Here is an example of a speed change from one lead screw to another:
    - Existing constants in the example: Stepper Motor steps 200, microstepping 1/8 making the total steps 200 * 8 = 1600.
    - Old lead screw: 1/2" allthread = 13 threads per inch (UNC)
    - New Lead Screw: 1/2" 5 starts, 10 TPI = 10 / 5 = 2 turns per inch

    Old lead screw would achieve a steps per inch of:
    1600 / (1 inch / 13 turns) = 20,800 steps per inch (You can also express the calculation as 1600 * 13 = 20,800 steps/inch)

    New lead screw would achieve a steps per inch of:
    1600 / (1 inch / 2 turns) = 3200 steps per inch

    You can see that the new lead screw requires far fewer steps to get to the same length of travel. If you maintained the same velocity for both examples, the new lead screw would travel the same distance 13/2 = 6.5 times faster. So, if your velocity was say 10 ipm, your new velocity would be 65 ipm. That would translate to far fewer burned edges and longer end mill life!

    Just remember, confirm that your motors will be able to handle the new lead screw. You will need to reduce the steps/inch causing the motor torque to increase quite a bit, so you should be fine.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I want to increase my travel speeds. Can I change the lead screw to make my machine quicker?

  • WHAT SIZE COLLET IS IN YOUR 1.5 KILOWATT SPINDLE?

    The collet in the 1.5 kW spindle is an ER-11 and cannot reach the 1/2" size. I would consider the 2.2 kW spindle instead.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    WHAT SIZE COLLET IS IN YOUR 1.5 KILOWATT SPINDLE?

  • I would like to design my own CNC router around one of your electronics bundles, either the 3 Axis - Heavy Gantry or 3 Axis - All Large Motors. Do you have the data sheets for the motors so that I can use the dimensions in my model?

    You can find the datasheets to our motors be going to the the stepping motor category page https://www.buildyourcnc.com/category/nema and selecting the motor. This will bring you to the product page for the motor and all of the motor information will be found there.

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I would like to design my own CNC router around one of your electronics bundles, either the 3 Axis - Heavy Gantry or 3 Axis - All Large Motors. Do you have the data sheets for the motors so that I can use the dimensions in my model?

  • I am asking what to set my steps per using your kit stepper motors and a 1/2"x13 lead screw with Mach3

    Here is the formula for steps/inch (steps per inch)

    Steps = how many steps for a full ration of the motor = standard motor steps x number of microsteps for each step
    Standard motor steps for our stepping motors is 200 steps per revolution.
    Microsteps are selected on the driver and are shown as full, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32 etc... Use the denominator for the number of microsteps per step.

    Inches = how far the travel is for one full rotation of the motor. For the 1/2" - 13 TPI (threads per inch), the travel length will be 1"/13 or .076923". So, for one revolution of the motor, the travel distance will be .076923 inches.

    So, the steps = 200 * microsteps, let's make this 1/4 just for the formula.
    The inches will be .076923. Plug those into the formula:
    Steps / inch = (200 * 4) / .076923 This can also be written as:
    200 * 4 / (1 / 13) = 10,400



    Additional Information:

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I am asking what to set my steps per using your kit stepper motors and a 1/2"x13 lead screw with Mach3

  • I would like to know what the lowest rpm that can be acheived with the 2.2kw spindle and inverter and still have enough torque to drill

    According to the supplier of the 2.2 kW spindle, the safest operating speed for the spindle is 6000 RPM. The supplier also stated that theoretically, the spindle can operate from 0 to 24,000 RPM. I am continuing a dialog with the supplier to delve deeper into understanding the configurations and ramifications of such configurations for operations outside of the safe boundaries into the "theoretical" ranges.

    Additional Information:
    20

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    I would like to know what the lowest rpm that can be acheived with the 2.2kw spindle and inverter and still have enough torque to drill

  • Is there anywhere i could see one of your machines,12" x 36",working,thanks

    You can see pictures and info on our machines on the gallery link in the top bar.

    Here are a few links for the blueChick CNC:
    Rot Aylett's:



    &feature=youtu.be

    Click the link to add information to this solution:
    Is there anywhere i could see one of your machines,12" x 36",working,thanks

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